WoW Forever Subtlety Rogue Guide
DamageMelee
Damage
Melee5 new, 9 changed and 3 removed talents since Classic; the 31-point talent is new: Thousand Cuts.
Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 3% and reduces its cooldown by 2 sec.
Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 15% and reduces its cooldown by 6 sec.
3/5
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 1 level higher.
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 3 levels higher.
Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 5%.
Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 10%.
2/2
Gives you a 33% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging an attack or fully resisting a spell.
Gives you a 100% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging an attack or fully resisting a spell.
2/3
Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish and Blind abilities by 45 sec.
Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish and Blind abilities by 90 sec.
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sap and Blind abilities by 25%.
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sap and Blind abilities by 50%.
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 15%.
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 45%.
3/3
Gives you a 33% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
Gives you a 100% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
A strike that deals 125% (180% if a Dagger is equipped in your Main Hand) weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 sec. Awards 1 combo point.
1/1
Increases the radius of your Distract ability by 3 yds, and further reduces the Stealth detection of distracted enemies as though they were an additional 1 level lower.
Increases the radius of your Distract ability by 5 yds, and further reduces the Stealth detection of distracted enemies as though they were an additional 2 levels lower.
Increases your Stealth detection as if you were 1 level higher and reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 2%.
Increases your Stealth detection as if you were 3 levels higher and reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 4%.
Adds 2 Combo Points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 20 sec or the combo points are lost.
Causes your attacks to ignore 3% of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 10%.
Causes your attacks to ignore 9% of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%.
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 10, and your Garrote ability no longer requires you to be behind your target.
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 20, and your Garrote ability no longer requires you to be behind your target.
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.
An instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a Dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 15% increased Rupture damage from the Rogue. Lasts 15 sec. Awards 1 Combo Point.
Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 2% more damage against targets below 35% health.
Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 10% more damage against targets below 35% health.
Your Backstab has a 3% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.
Your Backstab has a 15% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.
When your Rupture ability deals periodic damage, the Energy cost of your next Hemorrhage or Backstab ability within 10 sec is reduced by 3, stacking up to 5 times.
“Subtlety Rogue” means most of your 51 talent points go into Subtlety. Forever keeps Classic’s three open trees, so you can mix them.
Community build
Subtlety
Subtlety 11
Talents it takes
- CamouflageCamouflageSubtlety · tier 1 · max rank 5
Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 3% and reduces its cooldown by 2 sec.
Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 15% and reduces its cooldown by 6 sec.
3/5 - OpportunityOpportunitySubtlety · tier 1 · max rank 2
Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 5%.
Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 10%.
2/2 - SetupSetupSubtlety · tier 2 · max rank 3
Gives you a 33% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging an attack or fully resisting a spell.
Gives you a 100% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging an attack or fully resisting a spell.
2/3 - Improved AmbushImproved AmbushSubtlety · tier 2 · max rank 3
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 15%.
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 45%.
3/3 - Ghostly StrikeGhostly StrikeSubtlety · tier 3 · max rank 1
A strike that deals 125% (180% if a Dagger is equipped in your Main Hand) weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 sec. Awards 1 combo point.
1/1
Opportunity for Backstab and Ambush damage, Camouflage for faster movement in Stealth and a shorter Stealth cooldown, Improved Ambush crit, Setup for combo points on dodges, and Ghostly Strike.
Posted by Seliathan on Icy Veins, .
31-point talent · level 40
Thousand CutsWhen your Rupture ability deals periodic damage, the Energy cost of your next Hemorrhage or Backstab ability within 10 sec is reduced by 3, stacking up to 5 times.
Key abilities
- Stealth1
- BackstabRank 1 · level 4Cost 60 EnergyCast time instant
Backstab the target, causing 150% weapon damage plus 10 to the target. Must be behind the target. Requires a dagger in the main hand. Awards 1 combo point.
4 - SapRank 1 · level 10Cost 65 EnergyCast time instant
Incapacitates the target for up to 25 sec. Only works on Humanoids that are not in combat. Any damage taken will break the effect. Only 1 target may be sapped at a time. Does not break Stealth.
10 - Ambush18
- Vanish22
Builds are transcribed point by point from their public posts and checked against the beta client’s trees.
Leveling a Subtlety Rogue: 1 to 60
When each tier opens with every point in Subtlety, when the build takes its talents and when the trainer teaches the key abilities.
Levels 1–9
- 1StealthStealth
- 4BackstabBackstabRank 1 · level 4Cost 60 EnergyCast time instant
Backstab the target, causing 150% weapon damage plus 10 to the target. Must be behind the target. Requires a dagger in the main hand. Awards 1 combo point.
- 1
Levels 10–19
- 10First talent pointOpportunityOpportunitySubtlety · tier 1 · max rank 2
Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 5%.
Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 10%.
SapSapRank 1 · level 10Cost 65 EnergyCast time instantIncapacitates the target for up to 25 sec. Only works on Humanoids that are not in combat. Any damage taken will break the effect. Only 1 target may be sapped at a time. Does not break Stealth.
- 12CamouflageCamouflageSubtlety · tier 1 · max rank 5
Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 3% and reduces its cooldown by 2 sec.
Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 15% and reduces its cooldown by 6 sec.
- 15Tier 2 opensImproved AmbushImproved AmbushSubtlety · tier 2 · max rank 3
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 15%.
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 45%.
- 18SetupSetupSubtlety · tier 2 · max rank 3
Gives you a 33% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging an attack or fully resisting a spell.
Gives you a 100% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging an attack or fully resisting a spell.
AmbushAmbush
- 10
Levels 20–29
- 20Tier 3 opensGhostly StrikeGhostly StrikeSubtlety · tier 3 · max rank 1
A strike that deals 125% (180% if a Dagger is equipped in your Main Hand) weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 sec. Awards 1 combo point.
- 22VanishVanish
- 25Tier 4 opens
- 20
Levels 30–39
- 30Tier 5 opens
- 35Tier 6 opens
- 30
Levels 40–49
- 4031-point talentThousand CutsThousand CutsSubtlety · tier 7 · max rank 1★ New in Forever
When your Rupture ability deals periodic damage, the Energy cost of your next Hemorrhage or Backstab ability within 10 sec is reduced by 3, stacking up to 5 times.
- 40
Levels 50–60
- 60All 51 points spent
- 60
Key Subtlety Rogue abilities
Trainer abilities a Subtlety Rogue leans on, with the level they’re taught and what the beta client changed.
- StealthStealth
- BackstabBackstabRank 1 · level 4Cost 60 EnergyCast time instant
Backstab the target, causing 150% weapon damage plus 10 to the target. Must be behind the target. Requires a dagger in the main hand. Awards 1 combo point.
- SapSapRank 1 · level 10Cost 65 EnergyCast time instant
Incapacitates the target for up to 25 sec. Only works on Humanoids that are not in combat. Any damage taken will break the effect. Only 1 target may be sapped at a time. Does not break Stealth.
- AmbushAmbush
- VanishVanish
Subtlety Rogue weapons by level
The top Dual wield pick in each band of ten levels, from quests, dungeons, vendors and crafting.
Levels 1–10
- Enamelled BroadswordVendor Loch Modan · limited stockEnamelled BroadswordItem Level 14Binds when equippedMain HandSword12 - 23 DamageSpeed 2.40(7.3 damage per second)+1 StrengthRequires Level 9
- Enamelled Broadsword
Levels 11–20
- Butcher's CleaverButcher's CleaverItem Level 25Binds when picked upOne-HandAxe23 - 32 DamageSpeed 1.70(16.2 damage per second)Requires Level 20Dungeon Shadowfang Keep · Razorclaw the Butcher · 10%
The beta client has no stats for this item yet: these are the Classic Era client’s.
- Butcher's Cleaver
Levels 21–30
- Swinetusk ShankSwinetusk ShankItem Level 35Binds when picked upUniqueOne-HandDagger24 - 45 DamageSpeed 1.50(23.0 damage per second)Requires Level 30Dungeon Razorfen Kraul · Agathelos the Raging · 40%
The beta client has no stats for this item yet: these are the Classic Era client’s.
- Swinetusk Shank
Levels 31–40
- Sword of SerenitySword of SerenityItem Level 44Binds when picked upOne-HandSword46 - 86 DamageSpeed 2.20(30.0 damage per second)Quest In the Name of the Light · Scarlet Monastery · lv 40
The beta client has no stats for this item yet: these are the Classic Era client’s.
The client gives no required level: this is the level its quest can be taken at.
- Sword of Serenity
Levels 41–50
- Blade of Eternal DarknessBlade of Eternal DarknessItem Level 54Binds when picked upUniqueMain HandDagger41 - 77 DamageSpeed 1.50(39.3 damage per second)Requires Level 49Equip: Chance on landing a damaging spell to deal 112 Shadow damage and restore 104 mana to you.Dungeon Maraudon · Princess Theradras · 0.5%
The beta client has no stats for this item yet: these are the Classic Era client’s.
- Blade of Eternal Darkness
Levels 51–60
- Hammer of the Twisting NetherHammer of the Twisting NetherItem Level 89Binds when picked upUniqueOne-HandMace97 - 181 DamageSpeed 1.90(73.2 damage per second)Requires Level 60Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 238.Equip: Restores 8 mana per 5 sec.Raid Naxxramas · Kel'Thuzad · 20%
The beta client has no stats for this item yet: these are the Classic Era client’s.
- Hammer of the Twisting Nether
Races for a Subtlety Rogue
No racial works with a Subtlety talent in particular, so any race that can be a Rogue is fine.
- HumanAllianceHumanAlliance
Sword Specialization crit while a sword is equipped.
- DwarfAllianceDwarfAlliance
Stoneform; Mace Specialization crit while a mace is equipped.
- Night ElfAllianceNight ElfAlliance
Shadowmeld; Elune's Light.
- GnomeAllianceGnomeAlliance
Expansive Mind adds 5% maximum Energy.
- OrcHordeOrcHorde
Axe Specialization crit while an axe is equipped (Forever Rogues can reportedly use axes).
- UndeadHordeUndeadHorde
Will of the Forsaken.
- TrollHordeTrollHorde
Berserking; Rapid Regeneration.
- SkyborneAlliance · HordeSkyborneAlliance · Horde
Wind Blessed Haste; Walk on Air.
Subtlety in Forever vs Classic
19 talents in Forever, 17 in Classic.
New 5
- Dirty TricksDirty TricksSubtlety · tier 2 · max rank 2★ New in Forever
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sap and Blind abilities by 25%.
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sap and Blind abilities by 50%.
- Improved DistractImproved DistractSubtlety · tier 3 · max rank 2★ New in Forever
Increases the radius of your Distract ability by 3 yds, and further reduces the Stealth detection of distracted enemies as though they were an additional 1 level lower.
Increases the radius of your Distract ability by 5 yds, and further reduces the Stealth detection of distracted enemies as though they were an additional 2 levels lower.
- QuietusQuietusSubtlety · tier 6 · max rank 5★ New in Forever
Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 2% more damage against targets below 35% health.
Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 10% more damage against targets below 35% health.
- CutthroatCutthroatSubtlety · tier 6 · max rank 5★ New in Forever
Your Backstab has a 3% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.
Your Backstab has a 15% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.
- Thousand CutsThousand CutsSubtlety · tier 7 · max rank 1★ New in Forever
When your Rupture ability deals periodic damage, the Energy cost of your next Hemorrhage or Backstab ability within 10 sec is reduced by 3, stacking up to 5 times.
Changed 9
- CamouflageCamouflageSubtlety · tier 1 · max rank 5
Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 3% and reduces its cooldown by 2 sec.
Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 15% and reduces its cooldown by 6 sec.
Moved from tier 2 - Master of DeceptionMaster of DeceptionSubtlety · tier 1 · max rank 3
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 1 level higher.
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 3 levels higher.
Max rank 5 → 3 - OpportunityOpportunitySubtlety · tier 1 · max rank 2
Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 5%.
Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 10%.
Max rank 5 → 2 - SetupSetupSubtlety · tier 2 · max rank 3
Gives you a 33% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging an attack or fully resisting a spell.
Gives you a 100% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging an attack or fully resisting a spell.
Moved from tier 4 - Improved AmbushImproved AmbushSubtlety · tier 2 · max rank 3
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 15%.
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 45%.
Moved from tier 3 - Heightened SensesHeightened SensesSubtlety · tier 4 · max rank 2
Increases your Stealth detection as if you were 1 level higher and reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 2%.
Increases your Stealth detection as if you were 3 levels higher and reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 4%.
Moved from tier 5 - PremeditationPremeditationSubtlety · tier 4 · max rank 1
Adds 2 Combo Points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 20 sec or the combo points are lost.
Moved from tier 7 - Dirty DeedsDirty DeedsSubtlety · tier 5 · max rank 2
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 10, and your Garrote ability no longer requires you to be behind your target.
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 20, and your Garrote ability no longer requires you to be behind your target.
New spot, same tier - HemorrhageHemorrhageSubtlety · tier 5 · max rank 1
An instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a Dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 15% increased Rupture damage from the Rogue. Lasts 15 sec. Awards 1 Combo Point.
New spot, same tier
Removed 3
- Improved SapImproved SapClassic tier 4 · max rank 3
Not a talent in the Forever beta client.
Classic tier 4 · max rank 3 - Sleight of HandSleight of HandClassic tier 2 · max rank 2
Not a talent in the Forever beta client.
Classic tier 2 · max rank 2 - DeadlinessDeadlinessClassic tier 6 · max rank 5
Not a talent in the Forever beta client.
Classic tier 6 · max rank 5
Still unconfirmed
- Talents, trainer levels and weapons are read from the Forever beta client and can change before launch.
- The community builds so far are for level 20; none covers level 60 yet.