WoW Forever Podcast Episode 3: Dungeon XP, New Dungeons and Raids

The episode

Blizzard posted episode 3, “Dive into Dungeons with Devs”, on October 8. It runs 64 minutes: host Josh Corbett (Countdown To Classic) and content creator Hammerdance put questions to Josh “Aggrend” Greenfield and the encounter designers Jay Hartman and Rowan Ryder, who each built one of the new dungeons.

These are their statements, read from the episode’s captions and grouped by what you would ask. The time after a statement opens the video at that moment. Plans said on a podcast aren’t patch notes: we mark what is planned and what is only being discussed. The earlier episodes: WoW Forever Podcast episode 1 and WoW Forever Podcast episode 2.

Dungeon XP: how leveling in dungeons should feel

Creature kills in dungeons: +20%; Approximate; in the beta build of October 8
Party XP: Per player; No longer set by the highest-level member; a bug fix in the same build
Dungeons against questing: About equal; Greenfield’s estimate for perfect play after both changes

Not one run and done. Ryder said that is where the last version of dungeon experience landed, and it is not the goal. Greenfield said kills in dungeons go up “by about 20%”, the change that arrived with the October 8 build (9:27).
But not the best way to level either. “Just grinding dungeons” must not be the optimal route; there has to be a reason to go back outside. Their example of what they don’t want: 50 runs of one Scarlet Monastery wing from level 30 to 50 (9:27).
Quests stay as they were. The first completion of a dungeon quest remains the most rewarding part, as in original WoW. The team did not want to rewrite old quests, and quests that take more than one run, like the hide collection in Wailing Caverns, shouldn’t be punished (9:27).
What it was before. Hammerdance said a full Deadmines run with every quest gave almost two levels around level 16 before the change (7:53).
The party fix was not in the episode. Greenfield added it on the forum the same day: experience per kill was being set by the highest-level player in the group, and now depends on your own level. With both changes, he wrote, dungeon leveling at perfect play is “very close, if not equal” to optimal questing, and it will not be what it was in Classic Era.

What the numbers mean for your route: WoW Forever leveling guide. Every dungeon and its level range: WoW Forever dungeons.

The new dungeons, one by one

Level 13–18

Hall of Thanes

Under Ironforge, easy to reach for the Alliance and not for the Horde, the way Ragefire Chasm is for the Horde. It is not Alliance-only (20:25).
Story came before faction parity. The team will give one faction easier access again.
Is there a Horde entrance? “You’ll have to find out.” Some of its quests were opened to the Horde on purpose.

Level 15–20

Ruins of Lordaeron

Not linear, with bosses that are easy to miss; Hammerdance named one that steps out of a statue (15:26).
Expect more reasons to search every corner in later dungeons, but not a boss in each one.

Level 26–31

Excavation Site: Wetlands

Hartman’s dungeon, small on purpose: an old lagoon, Titan pieces and raptors hidden in tall grass, in a dwarven area the original game built and never used (23:44).
The first step up in difficulty, by design. Only the physical-damage disease was lowered, a number typed with one zero too many; the raptor boss’s bleed is untouched and intended, and neither can be dispelled (27:35).
More excavation sites will appear around the world.

Level 28–33

City of Dalaran

In the beta since the October 8 build. Hammerdance counted about nine bosses; the designers say it is compact, and other Forever dungeons are “at least four times as big” (32:13).
One shared entrance through the sewers replaced the two faction entrances first planned, for the reveal when you come out and look up at the city. Each faction still has its own quests and story, which meet inside.
Wowhead reports from the beta that Horde players who finish the dungeon’s quest line are let into the city, with limited services.

Level 55–60

Blackmaw Hold

Ryder’s dungeon, behind the old stone gate in Azshara: a corrupted furbolg tribe, demons and many secrets (39:03).
Not built as a mega dungeon, but its footprint is probably larger than Blackrock Depths, with a lot of height. Meant to be finished in one long session.
Comfortable at 60, open a little earlier. The alpha called it Timbermaw Hold; it was renamed because players mixed it up with the faction’s home.

Images: Blizzard Entertainment, from the press kit and the beta client’s loading screens.

Not shown yet. The dungeon Ryder most wants players to see is Krol’dok Stronghold. Hartman’s favorite to build was Shaper’s Terrace, which has dinosaurs (59:24).
Where the ideas came from. An internal “dungeon rush” and “zone rush”: anyone on the team, designers and QA alike, could hand in a one-page pitch, and many of the dungeons started there (5:42).

The rules the dungeons are built on

Dungeons don’t care about you. The designers want them hostile and “apathetic to the player’s existence”: places you break into, not rides. Before building, the team replayed Classic Era dungeons; a boss that suddenly appears in a Stratholme alley is the kind of uneven moment they copy (15:26).
No dungeon maps. With a map, players take the shortest path and skip the rest. “We probably won’t have dungeon maps” (19:52).
Meeting stones don’t summon. The trip to a dungeon is part of the dungeon. Every convenience “shrinks the world”, and with fewer choke points world PvP stays spread out (50:21).
Immunities are back. A robot doesn’t bleed, an arcane elemental is immune to Arcane. The City of Dalaran is the first place it bites, for Arcane Mages; a Mage has other tools, and other dungeons will test other classes. How raids handle immunities was left for another day (36:51).
Slightly too hard at launch, then eased. The team prefers that to the reverse. Forever is “not meant to be a hyper difficult game”, but dungeons should ask for preparation and attention (27:35).
Tanks and healers: act the part. No level at which a tank or healer build becomes required, and early dungeons can be tanked by almost anyone. “You don’t have to be specced like a tank, but we expect you to act like a tank.” Dual spec unlocks at level 40 now; the level is being discussed, “maybe a cheeky 30” (43:52).

Tank and healer talent trees for each class: WoW Forever classes.

Raids: attunements, consumables, world buffs

What the developers said about raids at launch
Topic	What they said	Said at
Onyxia’s Lair attunement	Stays, per character, not account-wide, “at least at launch”	53:25
The new raids	Nothing stops you walking in; for “the full experience” you may have to do “a little digging”	53:25
Later raids	Attunements where they make sense, no formula; expect one at some point	53:25
Consumables	Every Classic consumable stays usable; nothing was announced as cut	57:10
World buffs	Not usable in raids	57:10
Farming	The economy is tuned so a three-hour raid doesn’t need “40 hours a week” of farming	57:10
Preparation	Resistances and preparation remain part of raid design	57:10

Asked for the content they most look forward to, Hartman and Greenfield both named the Barrow Deeps, the 10-player raid, and Ryder agreed if raids count. It was built with the Warcraft III mission set in the Barrow Deeps as reference, a short clip of its interior was shown, and Greenfield wrote a couple of quests there (59:24).

Raid sizes, bosses and opening date: WoW Forever raids.

What is coming next

What the developers said is coming, and how firm it is
What	Status	Said at
Racial abilities: Orc and Troll actives (“perhaps a little too strong”) and the weapon skill racials, which may be kept or replaced	Planned to start in next week’s beta build	1:17
A warning on the trade confirmation and on accepting mail, to be sure where gold comes from	Planned, in a later update	2:55
Standard-definition Skyborne models	Planned for the first major update, early 2027	2:13
More new leveling quests, placed after watching the routes players take	Planned for later updates	13:59
The level dual spec unlocks at (40 now)	Being discussed	43:52
Open-world elite areas made bigger, or a dungeon entrance inside one	On the idea board, nothing to announce	47:29
Quests that lead you to a dungeon’s door (the host’s request)	No answer given	63:13

Gold buying. On the beta so far Blizzard has closed more than 2,100 accounts for buying gold and almost 1,600 for selling it or botting. The team says it can tell a tip for a portal or a crafting fee from a gold sale, and that players in the community dueling tournament are being watched, some already actioned (2:55).
Open-world elite areas. Hammerdance asked about Tyr’s Hand, Jintha’Alor and Stromgarde. The designers would rather keep such places as dangerous outdoor spaces than turn them into instances (47:29).
New quests. “A thousand” is a low count, the developers said. Few of them are felt at low level; past 20 the Wetlands gained quite a few, and around 40 the Riverglades open things up. The hope is that a second or third character can level another way (13:59).

Today’s racials, race by race: WoW Forever races.

Small things

Music is in. The developers praised the music of the Riverglades and of Farholde Keep (59:24).
A magpie on Zephras Isle. The Australian magpie’s call is part of the island’s ambience (59:24).

What this means for you

Run each dungeon for its quests, then go back outside. Kills pay about 20% more than last week, but by Blizzard’s own estimate dungeons only match good questing.
Learn the layouts. No maps are planned, and bosses can sit off the main path.
Plan the trip. Meeting stones won’t summon, and one faction can be closer to a dungeon than the other.
Raiders: attune each character for Onyxia and keep farming consumables; world buffs stay outside.
It’s a beta. What was said on a podcast can change before launch on November 4.

Related WoW Forever guides

Still unknown

Which racial abilities change, and by how much.
Whether the Hall of Thanes has a Horde entrance.
The level dual spec will unlock at.
What the “digging” for the new raids involves.
When the trade warning and the extra leveling quests arrive.

Sources

How we choose and check sources