WoW Forever Podcast Episode 4: The Developers on PvP

The episode

Blizzard posted episode 4, “The PvP Episode”, in the week of October 15. It runs 63 minutes: host Josh Corbett (Countdown To Classic) and the content creators Savix and Tips Out, who runs the Forever Open duel tournament, put questions to Josh “Aggrend” Greenfield and Tim Jones.

These are their statements, read from the episode’s captions and grouped by what you would ask. The time after a statement opens the video at that moment. Plans said on a podcast aren’t patch notes: we mark what is planned and what is only being discussed. The earlier episodes: episode 1, episode 2 on classes and episode 3 on dungeons.

Rulesets: pick carefully, there is no moving later

• One mega server per ruleset. Normal is the relaxed ruleset where you only fight when you choose to; on PvP, fights happen anywhere. Blizzard is not likely to let players move between them: in Classic, free transfers let the losing faction leave all at once and empty servers, and faction balancing in Season of Discovery and Anniversary only worked because players could not move (1:22).
• If PvP turns out not to be for you, the only option will probably be a new character on Normal. Greenfield’s advice: think about how much time you have to play before you pick, and there is no wrong answer (4:18).
• No RP-PvP ruleset for now. Greenfield said they would love to say yes, but the roleplay community is small, a realmless ruleset needs a critical mass of players, and the past is mixed: Grobbulus in 2019 stayed healthy, while Crusader Strike, the biggest realm of Season of Discovery in North America, lost its RP tag after about three months because it played as a PvP realm. “Never say never”, but there are no immediate plans (5:43).

How rulesets replace realms, and what else they decide: WoW Forever servers and rulesets.

World PvP: big battles yes, protection no

• Large battles work. Engineers rebuilt the server side so big fights don’t lag, the focus for launch. Blizzard’s death heat maps show PvP as the most common cause of death in the outdoor world (12:38).
• Layering is still being fixed. Savix described his raid group landing on another layer. Jones called the work “incremental steps”: controlling groups larger than a raid, nobody phased out of their group at random, fights on zone borders. As much as possible before launch, and more after (14:31).
• No protection for low-level players. Asked about level 60s camping low levels until they log out, Greenfield said “PvP occurs on a PvP server”: exploits will be dealt with, camping is part of the ruleset. Jones hopes it pushes players to guilds and friends who come to help. Only events that turn PvP on in a place, like Blood Moon or the Battle for Blackrock Mountain in Season of Discovery, may get systems such as a short immunity after resurrection (35:17).
• World PvP objectives are on the board. The Season of Discovery events Battle for Ashenvale and Blood Moon are ideas they want to bring over; the Eastern Plaguelands towers and the Silithus sand turn-ins are not enabled at launch because they didn’t inspire PvP as intended. Whether world bosses are instanced, as in Season of Discovery, is still open (30:54).
• Things worth fighting over. Tips Out asked for scarce rewards like Classic’s Devilsaur farming. Jones said new recipes and rare materials hidden at level 60, with low drop chances in single places, should create that competition once players reach the level cap (28:45).

Rulesets, Honor and ranks in one place: WoW Forever PvP guide.

Battlegrounds and Honor

Alterac Valley

Less Honor

“A little less lucrative”

Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin, Darkspear Islands

Much more Honor

Each a valid way to grind

Solo queue

No premades

Premades meet premades

• Honor rebalanced. Jones said they looked at every way to gain Honor in every battleground and made huge changes, so that no holiday weekend of another battleground leaves you asking whether you should still run Alterac Valley. Rank Points and Honor are balanced separately: one activity may be best for the currency, another for your rank (42:13). Plan your climb with the WoW Forever PvP rank planner.
• Premades only meet premades. Queue alone and you should not face one; a small group of two or three may still count as solo, a number the PvP designers are still tuning (45:56).
• War games: the chat command that challenges a chosen group should work, maybe not at launch but soon after, with no Honor so it can’t be used to trade wins (47:59).
• Endless games. Alterac Valley keeps its reinforcements; whether Warsong Gulch and Arathi Basin get a time limit is not decided, but one team must not be able to hold another hostage (44:14).
• Tricks and exploits. Known tricks such as the Warsong Gulch graveyard jump are part of skill, but spots used to hide the flag or stall a game will be fixed, and battlegrounds will be watched after launch (49:14).
• No arenas or rated play. Jones wants battlegrounds to feel casual and PvP gear to matter outside PvP, not a currency and stats that only count in one mode; Greenfield said they are very wary of rated competition warping how classes are seen. New battlegrounds will keep coming; Jones’ dream is a king of the hill inside Blackrock Mountain (21:13).

A duel arena in a crater of Mount Hyjal

Savix asked for a dueling area where cooldowns reset. The developers said no promises, then showed one: for the second day of the Forever Open, the top 32 duel in an arena Blizzard built in a crater of Mount Hyjal. Greenfield said the crater from the original game was no good for questing, so they split it off onto its own map, with some terrain from the Burning Crusade raid, and pulled it forward into the beta. It has vendors for Soul Shards and reagents, and a cooldown reset NPC if the tournament wants one. Players can’t go there freely; it may come in a future patch (54:20).

Ideas for later: duel exhibitions during Darkmoon Faire week, and the Dalaran arena under the city, which exists but can’t be reached. Jones said dueling must stay visible outside the cities, not hidden away (57:20). Our PvP guide lists the two arena-type queue records the beta client had, one of them called Hyjal Crater.

• The Forever Open. Tips Out has run duel tournaments since the 2018 demo; this one is open, with over 6,000 sign-ups against the 1,000 expected, and Timthetatman doubled the prize money. It ran on October 17 and 18 (51:11).
• Not balanced for the tournament. Greenfield said Chris, who balances the classes, doesn’t care about it at all: “Penance is just good” (60:48).

Small things

• Items that make PvP. Tips Out named the Transformative Cocoon trinket and the potion satchel as the kind of items that make Classic dueling interesting; Greenfield said the systems designers will keep making them (16:37).
• The last of four. Corbett said Blizzard asked him for four episodes, and asked viewers to say in the comments if they want more (62:23).

What this means for you

• Choose your ruleset as if it were final. Moving between Normal and PvP is not planned.
• Spread your Honor grind. Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin and the Darkspear Islands now pay well; Alterac Valley less.
• Queue solo without fear of premades; bring a group if you want to meet one.
• On a PvP ruleset, plan for being camped: a guild or friends are the answer, not a game rule.
• It’s a beta. What was said on a podcast can change before launch on November 4.

Related WoW Forever guides

• PvP
• Servers & Rulesets
• Zones